Ezra

[Rob McNair]

In Ezra we learn how the Israelites are taken into captivity by the Babylonians and sin by taken foreign wives. So when they are released and head back to Jerusalem, Ezra tells them they have to abandon their wives and children. It's stuff like this that is just so hard to understand in our modern world. I wish there was some explanation on why it had to be this way as it seems so cruel and unusual.

[Amber Kalina]

But the rich man DID go to Hell... for being a horrible man in LIFE... It doesn't say whether he testified to God's word or not, but he didn't get a second chance to redeem himself. Lazarus couldn't even help him from Heaven (even if he had wanted to) because of the chasm between Heaven and Hell. And the rich man's brothers didn't even have a chance if they didn't listen to God's word.
I know if God finds a person to be fit, then the will be up there with him and the angels. But the thing is, we know that there are people in Hell. (Satan and his fallowers and all that) but, if people had a second chance to get into Heaven, a place of eternal peace and happiness where you can "live" forever with your friends and family and God himself, why would they chose the damnation in Hell, where you will burn in eternal Hellfire and be tortured for the rest of your "life," and you can't die there because it's not your human body that's burning, but, probably, your soul....

[Rob McNair]

Amber, I hear you. I really do. I went to bed last night not knowing how to respond. I prayed. I slept. And now I am awake and have some thoughts. First, this is a parable, which means it is a story Jesus used in order to teach a lesson and is not necessarily a factual story. Second, whenever I read a particular section I think it is important to also read what happened before and after, so as to determine the context (where is Jesus? Who is he talking to? and so on). If we do that we find out some important stuff:

(1) Jesus is talking to the Pharisees who are the people trying to get rid of him. The Pharisees were a religious/political sect that believed in a strict observance of the mosiac laws. In fact, the word pharisee literally means "separated" as they separated themselves from the common, everyday jews. The word pharisee is also related to the hebrew word "chasidim" which is where our modern world "chasm" comes from, which means separated. Look at verse 16:26 where it reads "Besides all this, between you and us a great chasm has been fixed..." Isn't that wonderful! Jesus specifically and intentionally uses this word to make a point to the Pharisees that this is exactly what they have done in this world. They have created a chasm between themselves and the common folk like Lazarus. In fact their name literally means chasm! They are following the law (in particular the cleanliness/holiness codes) so closely that they are disregarding the needs of the poor. The very law they are trying to uphold is causing them to sin greatly! This is also the moral of the Good Samaritan. The Pharisee passes by the injured man for fear of becoming "unclean" according to God's law.

(2) Looking before this parable we also find a reference to John the Baptist in 16:16 where it reads "The law and prophets were in effect until John came; since then the good news of the kingdom of God is proclaimed..." Go back to Luke 3 and John has some pretty heated and pointed words for the Pharisees who have come to watch him baptize. He calls them a "brood of vipers." John tells them too "Bear fruit worthy of repentance," with repentance meaning change. He is telling the Pharisees that the times they are a'changing! No longer are you expected to follow a strict interpretation of the law. The cleanliness and holiness codes are being put aside and now it is time to reach out to those in need, the unclean like Lazarus. John goes on to mention that you will not be able to call upon Abraham to save you (which is interesting since the rich man calls upon Abraham in the parable!) Jesus himself changes everything! He preaches and says stuff like, "You have heard it said...but I say..." Read through Matthew 5 starting at verse 21 and that comes up time and again.

(3) So what is the message? You reap what you sow. Jesus is turning the tables on the Pharisees. He is saying, "Look, how would you like it if you were the one in agony and no one helped you." He is using an illustration to make a point. He is using the law to show them that following the law will not save you, it will contribute to your demise. Your strict adherrence to the law is causing you to sin. Jesus is telling the Pharisees, "Fellas! You gotta change. Look! You have created this huge divide between yourselves and God's most needy people, and the day may come when your the one in need. And you won't be able to call upon Abraham who made the original covenant with God, because that covenant is no longer in effect! I, Jesus, am the new covenant. I am in effect. I am the law. I am the way, the truth, and the life." So in this parable, Abraham is a symbol to represent the old way (old testament) and if you follow that old way, you get the old product...judgment. But if you follow the new way (new testament) you get the new product...everlasting, eternal life! Take your pick.

[Rob McNair]

Another way to say this that came to me: If you try to earn your salvation by living by the law, then you will be judged by the law. But if you accept the new way, the new covenant, the new testament (i.e., Jesus), then there is no judgment but only grace and forgiveness.

So I think this parable is directed very much at those people who are self-righteous, judgmental, and think they are better than others because they are "more religious."

And what about Lazarus, the man with sores in the parable? He ends up in heaven, but never does Jesus say if he was a Christian. Was he baptized? What did he do in order to make it into heaven?

[Abby Kalina]

...Why doesn't my brain work like yours?

That really makes perfect sense. I really don't know how to otherwise respond to it than that, but you are still free to elaborate if you want. (Ya know, if anything clicks in that mind of yours...) I'm still not sure, but you really (ug, I just realized that I'm on Abby's account... Oh well, so that means that this is Amber) helped me to see passed Hell and look at Savation. :) Thanks!

Jesus brings elation, eternal salvation.

[Rob McNair]

It is hard though, because there is a lot of fire and brimstone imagery used by both John the Baptist and Jesus. But I think they do this because (1) it would resonant with the Pharisees, meaning they are using words and images the Pharisees would have understood and (2) it is like John and Jesus are saying, "Is this what you really want? You really want a system where you have to live perfectly by these laws otherwise you're damned to hell? You really want that old covenant where if you break God's laws, you are punished and judged? Because if it is, then the sad reality is no one gets into heaven and everyone ends up in hell, including you self-righteous, arrogant jerks because no one can live sin free (which is God's high standard for us).

Or do you want to change and operate under a new system and new covenant with God, which is that you follow me and I take on your sins and die for them, so that you get a free pass to heaven? Because if that is the case, then the joyous reality is that everyone gets in to heaven.

It is kind of like drivers ed when they show you videos of people getting into car wrecks and all the terrible consequences of being a careless driver. The instructor is basically saying, "Is this what you want? To end up crippled, injured, and devastated for the rest of your life? Of course you don't. So drive safe but remember, this could happen to you if you are careless." Seems like Jesus is using the same technique with the Pharisees.

[Amber Kalina]

:) Nice analogy. So... this brings up another question: are God and Jesus two different entities? God sends Jesus into the world to save the world, not to condemn the world... Was Jesus with God and helped God make this decision? Or... I don't know.

[Rob McNair]

Good question...that whole trinity idea is hard to understand completely and I don't think I have enough theology in me to give a complete answer...but my understanding is that father, son, and spirit are three parts of one whole that always existed. But now Jesus is a physical being. And I think we need to understand he is still a physical being. He is physically present in heaven, which means heaven is a physical place. But when Jesus was on earth he prayed to God, which always strikes me as odd, given he is one being with God. But I guess that means if Jesus prayed, how much more important is it for you and I to pray?!?! It also means Jesus, while divine, was also human and present with us. I think as humans we differentiate between the physical and spiritual, but I do not think God does. Just as we differentiate between yesterday, today, and tomorrow...but to God there is no time and thus no difference in the space/time continuum. It's all one and the same.

[Amber Kalina]

Thank you. That made me feel good inside and smile, and I don't even know why. :) I probably will always see Jesus and God as two different people. "People?" Entities?... Separate. Jesus basically showed us how we were to live on earth, then he saved us. I just realized how great that is. Jesus didn't just come to earth and show us what to do, then say "Good luck, I hope to seeya in Heaven someday." No, he showed us how to live happy, fufilling lives and then he died for us to ensure that we will go to heaven if only we believe. It's like a big rule book, but on the first page it gives you the one big rule so that you don't need to read the rest of the book unless you feel compelled to.

For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only son that whomsoever believed in him may not parish but have eternal life.

[Abby Kalina]

hey amber, did you make up "Jesus brings elation, eternal salvation" thing? because that is cool!
so i have a question.... um was Jesus totally made up from the spirit or was part of Mary (sorry if i spelt it wrong) in Jesus too? becuase then that could be the reason he prayed to God because he is a part of God, yet he also has part of a mortal in him too? (sorry if that sounds confusing.

[Amber Kalina]

Yeah, I did make that line. (If you'd actually look on Teens on a Mission, you'd see that as part of my poem) :)

I'm not sure about that last part, though. Cause, Jesus definitely WAS human here on earth, cause he died.... (for us btw)... So I don't know. Sorry, that was no help at all, was it?

[Rob McNair]

That is interesting to think about...if Jesus was genetically related to Mary. I would think he'd have to be. Imagine if he were around today, with all the DNA testing that is available.

[Abby Kalina]

well Ge is coming back somtime....
but anyway, um do you think when He comes back that the world will finally be in peace?