Faith Formation (aka Confirmation) What inspires youth to read the Bible and participate in the life of the church?

[The Rev Patsy Koeneke]

I would be interested in hearing from youth in particular regarding what would make the Faith Formation process more inspiring for them? It is so disheartening to see youth virtually "disappear" from worship, Sunday school, and church activities once they are "confirmed." Perhaps we need a new approach... and we need to listen to the youth and their ideas. Are there ways to "connect" with youth via Facebook, MySpace, text messages to cell phones and PDA's? What do you think? Leaders and pastors - your input will be valuable also. Thanks!

[John Welch]

I am a 61-year-old ex-youth who walked out of church when I was about 16, after spending most of my time there. Setting aside "techno-toys" (I'm a computer programmer...that's what we call them, and we write the code), I gave up on my church because:

- the thinking was too narrow. I was beginning to read Thoreau and Camus, was learning about Bob Moses and SNCC and The Movement, but my church had not changed since I was baptized.

- Our minister (so we called them in 1964) hammered at the Sermon on the Mount and the Book of James -- probably his way to send a message over the heads of our parents that we, a border South Methodist Church ought to line up with our Civil Rights leading Bishop John Wesley Lord. (And try to find a better name for a Methodist bishop!). The "grown-ups" muttered insults at Bishop Lord, growled at Reverend Dr. King and his "outside agitators". Most of my old friends from Sunday Day School added more vicious insults, and often, at school, I found myself banding together with the small group of outsiders, "beatnik folkie" kids who read Joyce and Eliot and far more than we had been encouraged to read in church.

- We all received blue-covered Nelson RSV bibles, but I found the text nearly a hard as the KJV. There was no Annotated RSV, so it was just this clumsy text. No context.

- Other denominations -- the Quakers I met in college -- had some attachment to Civil Right and the War in Vietnam. Everybody else just sang their hymns, listen to dull sermons, sipped rape juice and dissolved wafers that stuck to the roof of our mouths.

- The Quakes and the converting Budhists read Gandhi. They read Beat poetry about Taoism. They explored. They wondered as we looked up at the stars in Big Sur, and tried to work through the life around us.

- We listened to Bob Dylan's John Wesley Harding, and The Band, and Sergeant Pepper. Charles Wesley's hymns didn't say much to us.

Rev, Koeneke, you now see our kids. My son has spent seven years in the US Army; his wife spent six, including 2004 in Iraq. Her step-brother was killed, and she, as a journalist, finally could no longer cover funerals. We have a depression across the world.

I think one answer is community. The society, said Josiah Royce, must work toward "The Beloved Community". Martin Luther King learned the idea from his professors at Boston University, including some practical men who argued that humans were, by nature "persons in community", and that the highest form of community was bound by love. Walter Muelder added that Rienhold Niebuhr was wrong: in spite of original sin, and even though humans could not expect to form a perfect world here, we could still make life better...and we had my loving our neighbor as ourselves.

Some of that is a core message to young people. The content matters more than the mechanism. My elders went through the forms, but with a message that spoke to 1st century Rome. These kids are past that.

[Diane Mills]

I must admit you are asking two very different questions. One is how does a youth read a Bible? Well, when I was younger I was away from home and joined Navigators, a discipleship group. They really focus on Bible studies for college students but also have social events like parties, dinners, retreats at the Navigator castle in Colorado Springs. The topics were relevant to our situations. Over a retreat singleness, sex, money, how to study the Bible, women of the Bible and what our roles as women for a women's retreat were possible topics. The Bible itself was discussed as the Qurum scrolls had recently been found. So even archaeology played a role. Navigators, Campus Crusade and Youth for Christ brought in Christian speakers for free on our college campus. We had Josh McDowell come speak to us one time.

Most of the ones who stayed in a Bible study joined a church or at least attended a church. If the church was close to campus it was more likely to be attended as not every one had a car.

After accepting Jesus, I wanted to know what was written in the Bible both old and new testaments. I got a boost from The Daily Walk which gave Scripture verses to read plus an explanation of good and bad kings and their culture at that time.

After being baptized I was immediately put in a ministry but then I was 18 years old. I taught the 2 and 3 year olds Sunday school. Over the years I have learned more from them than they have from me!

I noticed my son Mark liked reading my archaeological Bible at a recent Christian convention even though the Bible weighs 4 pounds! It explains in great detail what things mean so I only read about a page a day plus all the notes and footnotes.

Mark seems to be drawn to people his own age, his type of music, good teaching and availability. It's difficult to get all that in one area. Churches with college groups already set up will have an advantage over those who don't.

[Bobbie Steinhauer]

I am facilitating a high school group at church now. Our goal is to transition them from youth to adult members. Going from seeing themselves as the ones being served to the ones serving. They are wonderful. Right now we are doing the Gospel according to The Simpsons. The kids enjoy it and it opens doors. Having a Facebook account is great, because I can see their real lives and can post comments and they can see mine, it's also a fun way to connect.

We do times of sharing our own highs and lows and our highs and lows for the world (being simply beyond ourselves). I am finding that it's important to not be afraid of where they are. Yes some of them are having sex, it happens. Some of them are drinking, that happens too. All of them are struggling with who they are. If we teach them that church is the soft place to fall and we'll catch them and lift them up, without our own judgments, they'll come to us.

I know several youth who have left because of sexuality issues, whether it was they were gay/lesbian, had sexual experiences and felt judged. There are also those who've left because they do "bad" things: cutting, drinking, cursing, fighting, etc. Youth workers need to walk the fine line between teaching about Jesus and morality and not alienating those who are experiencing the hard stuff that life offers.

Our job is to inspire them to be the people that God intended them not be, not the people that we intend them to be. The other P.S. is that if you, as a youth worker, are uncomfortable with something that a youth has brought to you PLEASE be honest and find someone else who can deal with it. It is unfair to work our your adult issues through a kid who is experiencing their own pain.

Enjoy them, love them and learn from them is my best thought.

[Jacki Maki]

I agree with Rachel on this--as this was my experience. My parents were not regular Sunday worshipers. In fact, if it weren't for my grandmother urging my mother to take my brother and I, I don't think we would have gone at all. I can only remember attending Sunday school as a small child (1st-2nd grade) while my brother was attending confirmation classes. Then, I didn't go again until it was time for my confirmation classes (6th-7th grade). Once I was confirmed, that was it, no more worship. It makes me sad now, as an adult with my own family. My grandmother was wonderful. She taught me to recite the Lord's Prayer as a very small child and I've said it every night before bed since. My grandparents took me to church with them and I liked to go. It made me feel good. I took my first communion with my grandparents. Even now, my mom will say "You know, your grandma and grandpa were so wonderful. They never argued. They never raised their voices." And I reply "That is because God and Jesus were #1 in their lives. They put Him above all others." I remember my grandma saying to me "I just don't know what happened to your mother." Well, I know. She lost her way. I'm attempting to help her find it again by mentioning the Good News everytime I speak to her. I'm glad I found my way back. It was my calling to pick up the Bible and find my way. And I've really made a connection and I'm so proud of that.

It all has to start in the home. Parents must be role models for their children. If children don't see their parents making God #1, how can they really take it seriously at all? It is hard enough to be a youth now days because everthing that is sinful is glorified. Parents must lead by example. It won't be a perfect example, but any effort at all-- a consistent one -- is better than no effort at all.

God Bless!

[The Rev Patsy Koeneke]

Thank you, John, for your thoughtful and thought provoking response. I hope and pray that the church at large is more inclusive than it was during our youth... from my experience it is, although we still have a long way to go. I totally agree that "community" is the key - faith is all about relationships - with God, Christ and our fellow saints. Unfortunately, the church competes with so many other "social activities" these days that it seems to just be another "task" on the "to do list" each week for many people. Youth fit it in when it doesn't conflict with sports, dances, and other school activities (or lack of sleep from participating in these activities). I also agree that "content matters more than the mechanism." This is why I am interested in connecting with youth - and all people for that matter - through techno toys - because they seem to have the attention of most people today. If we can't meet them in the church building, perhaps we can meet them wherever they are no matter what they are doing. I pray this will be so.

John Welch said:

I am a 61-year-old ex-youth who walked out of church when I was about 16, after spending most of my time there. Setting aside "techno-toys" (I'm a computer programmer...that's what we call them, and we write the code), I gave up on my church because:

[The Rev Patsy Koeneke]

Diane, thanks for the input. As with the comment from John Welch, you mentioned the importance of "community" - studying and socializing with others who have similar experiences (like college) and enjoy similar social activities.

The Archaeological Bible is an interesting thought. While youth are able to understand the abstract, perhaps seeing "proof" of the existence of early Christians would be beneficial to them in their faith walk, given that we live in a world that wants proof of nearly everything. While faith is all we need, we cannot discount the journeys of the saints who have gone before us.

I also understand than time and distance makes a huge difference for youth who want to go to church but have no access. This is something the church needs to be mindful of and find ways to invite and transport those who want to participate in the life of the church.

It is an excellent idea to involve them in the activities of the church - like teaching and participating as leaders during worship. Activities of this sort allow them to have a sense of ownership and belonging in the congregation.

Diane Mills said:

I must admit you are asking two very different questions. One is how does a youth read a Bible?

[The Rev Patsy Koeneke]

Hi, Rachel, thank you for your "Lutheran voice!"

Your comparison of Rome and the world today is chillingly and unfortunately accurate. I have long said when people say the Bible isn't relevant because it was written thousands of years ago - "I disagree! Tell me what has changed in human nature in the past 2000 or even 5000+ years!? It will only become irrelevant when people have learned the lessons it has to teach - that God loves us unconditionally and forgives us unconditionally - and we are called to live in relationship will all people - the same way - every day."

As for parents, I have been repeatedly reminded the parents (and grandparents) in my congregation that they are so crucial to the faith life of their children. I remind them of their baptismal promises. I remind them that their children are with them 166-167 hours a week - and they are only at church 1 or 2 hours a week. Then I ask, "who do you think has the greater impact on them in any aspect of their life and especially their faith formation?"

I have changed the name of "confirmation" to Faith Formation for Youth and I speak of the Rite of Affirmation of Baptism - not "Confirmation."

And, you too, mentioned the importance of "community." I hope some youth will describe in this forum what "community" means to them.

Rachel Spry Lammi said:

Dear Patsy,

Hello!

Thank you for this question. I pray many of today's tweens, teens, college students, and young adults share their ideas here. I look forward to seeing what they can share with us all!

[Bobbie Steinhauer]

Just a thought, but are there any parenting type of classes/info about keeping your post confirmation youth involved in church?

[The Rev Patsy Koeneke]

Jacki, you were truly blessed to have such a faithful grandmother!

Unfortunately, many Christians - Lutherans included - seem to think of baptism and "confirmation" as spiritual "band-aids" rather than as tools for living a faithful life in relationship to God, Christ, and the body of Christ. So often, parents bring their young child to be baptized, then "disappear" until the child is of age for Sunday school. Often they drop them off and pick them up on Sunday morning, but do not regularly attend worship except for C and E. Then they "force" them to attend "confirmation" classes, but take little interest or responsibility in what their child is learning. They too breath a sigh of relief when their children are confirmed, and then the entire family "disappears" for the most part. It is so disheartening to see them go through the motions without truly finding the inspiration of the Holy Spirit. I guess that is the "answer" to my dilemma, however: to let God be God and know that he will inspire people according to his will. All I can do is faithfully proclaim the message of the Gospel and let the Holy Spirit do the rest.

Jacki Maki said:

I agree with Rachel on this--as this was my experience. My parents were not regular Sunday worshipers.

[Diane Mills]

We were forbidden to attend church during high school so I don't have a youth group experience. When I was a child in Arizona, we attended all different Christian denominations especially Bible churches. We weren't brought up Lutheran per se. My high school friends invited me to a Baptist church (general conference) where I heard about Jesus more intimately. I have attended Baptist and Presbyterian churches and after giving a profession of faith I was baptized as a teenager in a Baptist church. My sister is a Lutheran pastor so I have learned quite a bit through her. Right now I am listening to her sermons via the Internet.

Rachel Spry Lammi said:

Dear Diane,

Hello!
The college study groups are often very good. I enjoyed the Intervarsity for this very reason.

Question...what was your childhood / high school "church" experience? What denominations influenced you? Are you in at Lutheran congregation now? I ask because you mention accepting Jesus, which is from traditions other than the Lutheran tradition. This is also a prevalent thought in American Evangelicalism.

I am glad you have such a strong passionate faith!

Smiles and God Bless,
Rachel :-)

Diane Mills said:

I must admit you are asking two very different questions. One is how does a youth read a Bible? Well, when I was younger I was away from home and joined Navigators, a discipleship group. They really focus on Bible studies for college students but also have social events like parties, dinners, retreats at the Navigator castle in Colorado Springs. The topics were relevant to our situations. Over a retreat singleness, sex, money, how to study the Bible, women of the Bible and what our roles as women for a women's retreat were possible topics. The Bible itself was discussed as the Qurum scrolls had recently been found. So even archaeology played a role. Navigators, Campus Crusade and Youth for Christ brought in Christian speakers for free on our college campus. We had Josh McDowell come speak to us one time.

Most of the ones who stayed in a Bible study joined a church or at least attended a church. If the church was close to campus it was more likely to be attended as not every one had a car.

After accepting Jesus, I wanted to know what was written in the Bible both old and new testaments. I got a boost from The Daily Walk which gave Scripture verses to read plus an explanation of good and bad kings and their culture at that time.

After being baptized I was immediately put in a ministry but then I was 18 years old. I taught the 2 and 3 year olds Sunday school. Over the years I have learned more from them than they have from me!

I noticed my son Mark liked reading my archaeological Bible at a recent Christian convention even though the Bible weighs 4 pounds! It explains in great detail what things mean so I only read about a page a day plus all the notes and footnotes.

Mark seems to be drawn to people his own age, his type of music, good teaching and availability. It's difficult to get all that in one area. Churches with college groups already set up will have an advantage over those who don't.

[The Rev Patsy Koeneke]

Forbidden? I don't remember that. Mom and Dad just never could find a church that they "liked" after we moved to Denver. And there were no churches within walking distance of our house. At least the "lapse" of church-going during our high school years didn't dampen our faith and we have both been active in church during our entire adulthood. Thanks be to God! Pastor Patsy

RE: We were forbidden to attend church during high school so I don't have a youth group experience. When I was a child in Arizona...

[Ken Hymes]

I'm 46, so not a youth. I am deeply engaged in youth culture, through 30 years of secular band leading. I find the way churches (in general, acknowledging that there are significant exceptions) treat teenagers to be deeply frustrating and counterproductive, in ways that mirror the problems with adult "spiritual formation." Adults can't be honest about their own sins of comission and omission and that is reflected in our inability to let kids be real in church. We are protecting ourselves from knowledge of how deeply we are failing our kids and our communities, how difficult, sad, and even dangerous their lives are in the world they are inheriting from us.
Thus we have lame, shallow curricula for youth. We pretend they are younger than they are. We pretend we don't have doubts about Scripture. We pretend we are not as lost as they are in sex, materialism, and self-protection. We pretend we are above drugs, when most often we have simply replaced illegal drugs with legal "drugs."
They are not stupid, they are very smart, and quick learners, their music and other cultural products are generally better than church music (broader palette of topics, emotional range, rhetorical and narrative strategies). Since they can see we are disingenuous about our own lives and hearts and minds, and all we offer is either worn out formalism or lame third-hand imitations of original secular culture, there is simply no reason they should believe us or even be particularly interested in what we have to say about God.

The answer is not more talking, more and better curricula. One answer is more listening, and actual material and social help with real situations and needs. If we're going to talk, we should be radically honest.

Another answer is showing instead of saying. If we want kids to be servants of Christ, we need to be visibly, sacrificially serving Christ in our communities. If we want kids to make decisions that reflect the teachings of Jesus, then that's the kind of decisions we should be making in our own lives and in our churches. We're not doing that for the most part. Mostly we are clinging to our stuff-driven lives, ignoring poverty unless it's somewhere we can take a plane too and then leave safely behind us and talk spiritually about to our church friends; mostly we are protecting the church and its resources as a haven and social club for our own use, instead of offering it sacrificially to our communities, trusting God to provide; mostly we are keeping the "other" at arm's length in our daily lives and neighborhoods, breathing a sigh of relief when inconvenient, messy, troubled, injured, dying, misbehaving people move along and out of our sight.

I include myself in this fully. I am so grateful to have a steady job playing music that I have put distance between my nice Christian life and the world in which I learned the skills I am being paid for. I am so glad to be safe, prayed for, supported and affirmed, that I am unwilling to be radically honest about who I actually am.

The Gospel is a dangerous and highly inconvenient document. If the church keeps itself safe from its own children, through ever more complicated strategies that somehow assure us we are there for them, then the church cannot truly and fully be the voice and body of the good news.

One more minor point: many of our youth do not have parents who will ever be useful to them in learning about the good news and the character of God's love. So while I agree that parents are the preferred source of learning and modeling, that can't be our only option.

Peace
Ken Hymes