Ezra

[Rob McNair]

In Ezra we learn how the Israelites are taken into captivity by the Babylonians and sin by taken foreign wives. So when they are released and head back to Jerusalem, Ezra tells them they have to abandon their wives and children. It's stuff like this that is just so hard to understand in our modern world. I wish there was some explanation on why it had to be this way as it seems so cruel and unusual.

[Amber Kalina]

*Abby taking* i'm to lazy right now to just log off.
yeah it is hard to understand sometimes. if only we had that magnifying glass like Luther had so that we could just look at it and better understand what god wants for us to do.
Any idea why people are constantly looting and fixing, then destroying the Temple of God?

[Rob McNair]

I think there are a lot of people who might be willing to believe but the Old Testament just seems too cruel and unusual to accept. Not sure how to get around that. My take of the temple is just that the kings and other leaders waxed and waned when it came to their faith in God. You'd have one king who was faithful and would build the temple up and destroy all the false idols and foreign gods, and then the next king was a schmuck and he would worship Baal and other false gods. And it just kind of went back and forth like this, not to mention when other civilizations would overtake the Israelites like the Babylonians. The Hewbrews history is one of constant persecution and people coming after them, even to the modern day.

[Amber Kalina]

I know this happened in Chronicles 1 and 11 alot (which I finally just finished!!). I think it's kind of cool how you can clearly see how God honors and raises up those who are good and fallow his laws and rules down to the "T" and how he deals with the wicked. It certainly shows me how I should stay on God's side and do what he says. It is scary and wonderful at the same time, how God makes sure the wicked get their just deserts and how he will always be with those who fallow him. :) Yep, what a lovely world.
This is the REAL Amber by the way...

[Rob McNair]

The book of Job is all about that, where Job's friends try to convince him that his sin caused God to punish him with all that misery. The thing is though I do not think it works like that, in fact it cannot. God cannot punish us, otherwise he invalidates the sacrifice Christ made. There is a book written by a rabbi entitled, "When bad things happen to good people" which is when it gets tricky because we sometimes believe when bad things happen to us that God is to blame. The truth is many times bad things happen because of our own poor decisions or simply the fact that we live in a fallen world and there are lots of people following the devil and not God. Why do little innocent kids get cancer? Why do little innocent kids suffer in places like Africa without food or clean water? I think because people decided not to follow God. We have poisined our own environment and now little kids develop cancer. We have decided to take care of ourselves instead of those around us. But yet we are in such a hurry to blame God. It is God who can turn misery into meaning. Transform pain and suffering into triumph.

[Amber Kalina]

Yeah, I agree to that. It's just that, it's kind of weird once you think about it... Like, Jesus saved us from eternal damnation, but what happened before Jesus? Did God direct his wrath on his people to punish them when Jesus didn't exist, in our human world that is...

[Rob McNair]

I think the Old Testament is pretty clear that when people were willing to repent and ask forgiveness, God was willing to forgive. I have not found an example where someone sinned and ask God for mercy and God said, "Too bad, you're screwed." Just the opposite, God always seems ready to forgive. However, there are times when people sin and do not ask forgiveness. The first example is Adam and Eve. God goes to Adam and asks why he ate from the tree and he points the finger at Eve. So he goes to Eve and Eve points the finger at the serpent. So they never take personal responsibility and never ask forgiveness. So then God has to do something. But before Jesus I think it did work like that. God held people responsibility and issued consequences, unless they confessed and asked forgiveness.

[Amber Kalina]

So, did Adam and Eve ever repent or are they burning?

[Rob McNair]

The Bible is clear that they never confessed and asked forgiveness. My personal belief is that we will always have that opportunity. I have yet to find the source of why we believe if we do not confess in this life then we are damned to hell for eternity. That's not what God wants. I believe those who do not accept Christ in this life, upon their physical death will come to realize the error of their ways and will have the opportunity to confess their sins and accept the sacrifice Christ made.

[Amber Kalina]

Hm, I know you've said that before, it's just not what I've ever learned, that's why I fear it. I don't know what will happen after we die. But, when it happens it happens and that's that, I guess. Whether that fate lead to Heaven or Hell is beyond me.

[Rob McNair]

Jesus' parable of the laborers in the vineyard (Matthew 20:1-16) would seem to parallel what I am saying. He starts out saying the kingdom of heaven is like...and then tells this story about how all these laborers are paid the same amount no matter how long they worked in the vineyard. I think this goes along with the idea that (1) you cannot earn your way to heaven, (2) it doesn't matter how long you have believed, and (3) God is generous and wants all his children with him in heaven. The parable of the Prodigal Son (Luke 15:11-32) is another that indicates God's willingness to forgive and shower us with mercy is far greater than any sin we can commit.

Although John 3:16 is much more famous, look at John 3:17 where it says, "Indeed, God did not send the Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him." Again, I am only preaching my take on this, but to me this indicates Jesus died for us all. I have a hard time believing that whole pearly gate scenario where St. Peter is at the gates of heaven and is allowing or denying people access to heaven. When Jesus died, the gates of heaven were removed because he came to save the world and restore God's original plan, eternal life in the garden of Eden.

[Amber Kalina]

I know. But what about Lazarus and the rich man? The rich man went to Hell, bing-bang-boom... There was no clemency for him because he lived a sinful life filled with gluttony and pride, and he refused to help Lazarus even though Lazarus was skin and bones and begging at the foot of his chair for crumbs from his table. So, the rich man is burning in Hell. I don't mean to fry to shake your thoughts, I'm just trying to figure this out.

[Rob McNair]

Amber, this whole thing is a lot easier if you just agree with everything I say. Just kidding, I love the conversation and wrestling with these ideas. I believe it is what God wants us to do. I just cannot imagine the God I follow and worship ever wanting even one of his children to suffer an eternity burning in hell. We are all precious to him just as my children are precious to me. Now there are times when my kids drive me nuts and I get seriously frustrated and angry with them, and I certainly am willing to issue consequences in order to try to change their behavior, but the idea of standing by and watching them suffering is unbearable. I do not care what decision my kid made, my love for them is unconditional. I would never turn my back on them. So how much greater is God's love for us? Immeasurable, which is why he sent his son to die for us! If Jesus died for our sins, then to me it doesn't make sense that people are being punished and burning in hell. The real question is: when is the deadline for accepting Jesus? Is it when we breathe our last breath in this fallen world? I just do not see where that is spelled out in the Bible. And given that God's love is unconditional, wouldn't a deadline like that be a condition? The kingdom of God incorporates heaven and earth, this fallen world and the next perfect world, and while we differentiate those worlds, I do not believe God does. I think they are parts of God's whole kingdom.