Ezekiel

[Rob McNair]

Ezekiel continues the wrath and rage that God is bringing upon the Israelites, which again got me thinking. As I thought about why all the wrath and rage, I thought, "What else could God do?" I mean the Israelites have totally turned their back on God, quite literally. In Ezekiel 8 you have them lying prostrate in the direction of the sun, which indicates that they are worshipping false gods. They are practicing all sorts of abominable rituals and traditions related to these false gods. In earlier parts of the Bible there are references to "male temple prostitutes", etc. So this gives us a pretty vivid idea of just how bad things have gotten out of control. So God sends the prophets to try to get them to change and they continually don't listen. So at some point, isn't God out of options? Doesn't he have to intervene in a radical way? Like a parent, when your kid is in the middle of the grocery store pitching a fit, crying and wailing, throwing themselves down on the ground. Sure you try talking to them and try to get them to change. But at some point you have to scoop them up and literally take control and remove them from the store. Isn't this basically what God is doing? God is scooping up the Israelites and removing them from their promised land and it's off to captivity in Babylon you go until you can learn to behave. A divine time-out!

[Steven & Candace Dahl]

I think that's a pretty accurate analogy for the Babylonian exile and related events. God's ways sometimes seem angry, but always, the prospect of bringing the people back into relationship becomes the focus.

Idolatry is always a problem with God's people it seems. It just takes different forms in the 21st century a.d.

I'm just thrilled to be caught up with my reading and actually really appreciated Jeremiah's story being mixed in with the prophetic utterances. Speaking the truth can be tough sometimes and one's patriotic loyalty can be called into question. I'm also pretty pumped to see fewer pages in the "to read" side and more pages in the "already read" side. Steve

[Abby Kalina]

wow. good job at finding that out j-bob. how do you get so into this kind of stuff? i mean i read the bible too, but i never seem to get the kinda thoughts you do.
i can't really comment fully on this because i'm not here yet....but i heard about part of this in isaiha (i'm terrible with spelling but hopefully you get the picture) and he was talking about how they would be put into babylon and Hok...( i think that's how his name started) was all happy that he thought it would happen in his sons lifetime and not his own. and i belive that still happens today because we here how there's new ways that the world is going to end wether it be becausse global warming will destroy us or a black hole is going to come suck us up or the sun is going to go out..(you get the picture).
is it terribly wrong to want to live a happy life and not care what doom befalls the generation ahead of us like Hok... did?

[Amber Kalina]

I just read yesterday in Isaiah about how worshiping a no-god (idol) is like saying "I love you" to a hunk of firewood. Kinda puts it into perspective. Then it talks about how God will carry us for the rest of our lives, even when we're old and grey. He saves us. That really got me. I never pictured it that way before. So, God is like our divine parent (He IS our divine father) who will do what a parent does, which is be there for us always and always, no matter what age we are.

As for Sis's comment, I believe that it is wrong to say it is "ok" for evil to befall anybody. So that's why it is so important to try to change the world now, so as to make it better/easier for future generations. That's why all these people are "going green" or working on solving our economic crisis. Same-same.

[Rob McNair]

Abby, that is a really awesome question and one that divides people. I worked with a guy a long time ago when I was living in Denver and at work he'd be drinking a pop and put the aluminum can in the garbage even though there was a recycle bin right next to it. He felt that since the world is fallen and since it is going to end anyway, what's the point in trying to do good? Also, he felt it was not within our power to change and make the world better. Now he was a fundamentalist evangelical and his sole purpose was to share the message of Jesus and try to convert people to Christ because it was the only way they were going to be saved from a life of eternal punishment. So he wasn't interested in environmental stewardship, he was interested in saving souls, which he believed was what we should be focused on. To use an allegory: we are on a sinking ship. That guy would say, "Forget trying to save the ship, let's get as many people on the life raft as possible!" As for me, I don't buy the idea we are on a sinking ship. That certainly wasn't the message Jesus gave us. Jesus gave us the message to roll up our sleeves and start using buckets to save the ship! Jesus commanded us to heal the sick, feed the hungry, provide for the poor, etc. If this physical world is doomed, why was Jesus so focused on meeting the physical needs of the people? We are to be his hands and feet in this world. We are called to end suffering and misery in this physical world, not just set up a spiritual safety net.

That opens the question about the second coming of Jesus, which makes me think. The guy I worked with thought it imperative that we save as many people before Jesus came again to judge the living and the dead. I have this thought that goes threw my head and I am not sure I can articulate it well and it has no theological support, but it makes me think. What if we are the second coming of Christ? Maybe the second coming of Christ is when we get our act together and actually follow the life of Jesus and are truly his hands and feet in this world. While that might not ever happen, I think that is the goal God has set before us. And with the power of Christ in all our hearts, we'd certainly be able to accomplish it. So until poverty, misery, disease, violence, bigotry, exploitation, greed, hatred, and all the other evils of this world are eradicated, there is still work for the people of God to do. The message of Jesus was one of change. We have to change our ways. We have to stop living lives of abundance and privledge and truly follow in his footsteps, living humble lives to serve. As Gandhi said: We must learn to live simply, so others may simply live.

[Amber Kalina]

:) Wow. I really must admit, when I first read the part about the sinking ship and saving the people and screwing the ship, I thought that wasn't such a bad idea, but when you mentioned saving the ship and gave reason why... that does make me think. Like, if that were a real life scenario instead of a... similie? ... I would insist upon saving the people (those on the Titanic sure didn't try to save the ship after they knew it was doomed). But I do want to save the earth for future generations. Of course, saying I want to save the earth is like saying Robin wants to save Metropolis. Superman does the main job, just like God will do the main job of choosing whether he wants the world to kick the bucket or not. Sorry, it makes it seem like I'm siding more with that guy than you, Rob. Uh, I really don't know what to do...

[Rob McNair]

God does work through us. In fact I believe Luther would say any and all good that comes from us is from God. That we are actually incapable of any goodness without God. But again, to focus solely on individual salvation just seems too narrow of a focus. Certainly it was not Jesus' sole focus otherwise he would not have said that loving our neighbor as ourself was so important. Seems like he would have simply said, "Get people to believe in me." Maybe part of it is that Jesus knew action was an indicator of belief. To say you believe is not enough, you need to show through your actions you believe, because your actions indicate the depth of your conviction. So when that guy throws his pop can in the trash instead of the recycling bin, is he showing he believes? Is he respecting God's creation? So to get back to the sinking ship allegory, I believe this guy is not only getting people on the life raft, but isn't he also making the ship sink quicker? And if the ship sinks quicker, don't you have less time to save people and get them on the raft? So sure, people on the Titanic got on life rafts, but people weren't down in the hull trying to make the ship sink quicker by making things worse. So when we disregard the fact that we are to be good stewards of this world, even though it is fallen, we are only expediting the fall and won't that ultimately limit our time and ability to spread the good news further? Also, when we act, that is the best way to evangelize and spread the good news. It is what Jesus did. He healed people and he feed people to share the gospel. He also talked so we do need a balanced approach of talking and acting in a Christian manner to convince people Jesus is the way. Actions speack louder than words, right?

[Amber Kalina]

I suppose. If a picture is worth a thousand words, then actions (the actual doing, not a frozen representation) must be worth millions! :)

Save the ship...save the ship... in turn save people.
Save the earth... save the earth... in turn save people?